Thread:Rastislav TrainStation/@comment-15636815-20131129224916/@comment-15529092-20131201010931

Confused, indeed... I took a day out of Wiki to think about it and I considered several options which would be a base for offense or frustration. Honestly, I wasn't able to come up with anything. I could imagine reverting or wasting edits of others, changing pages in others user folders, taking ownership of any Wiki page, ignoring others idea or plaguasing work of others and many more. But I definitely haven't done anything of this sort!

Let's make a few things clear.


 * 1. First about WorkshopExt located in my user folder. It seems that you completely misunderstood its purpose. It serves as a sandbox where I can test my ideas, create proof-of-concepts, try diffent approaches, to find out what & how works or does not and to see how its results would look like (wihout any imaganiation & guessing factors). What is definitely NOT its purpose is to serve as a proposal for Extensions page replacement. This should be obvious as it contains only a very small part from currently developed WorkshopE (= reduction to a few elemements selected to undergo testing).


 * 2. The reason of including this WorkshopExt into your blog post discussion should be obvious as well. As the discussion is all about (well, at least it WAS) of new Extensions category page STRUCTURE (and nothing else), I presented the link there to let others see easily imagine how exactly would new structure looked like - if the page was split into 2 subpages as I proposed in my comment.


 * 3. Taking ownership of your efforts. Sorry, but you are absolutely out of line. I would understand in case I created a new blog post or forum thread where I would present results of your work as my own work result (and conceal your efforts & own page at the same). Again, I have never done anything of this sort. At least, be so kind to scroll a few lines upwards from my comment and you will see all your work report & links there as part of your original blog post (about which was the entire discussion about). Not to mention that I linked the page in my user folder just to present its TOC structure.


 * 4. Ignoring your ideas and Wiki conventions. Again, I would understand it if I was tempering with the live page. But on the page in my user folder which is just sandbox designed to test different ideas & approaches? And more to speak: on the page which is on-the-go? Are you serious?! I was just in the middle of work (as described in no. 1) and a lot of things were intended to be adjusted or changed. I planned to go through all this first before I would give you answers in Extensions forum thread (and I had prepared many questions about tags & elements in your current workshop as well). I am always opened to ideas & suggestions (especially those based on good arguments) and if I am proven to be wrong, I have no problem to admit it...

Wasted efforts & time - interesting story. That is something which I have to strongly disagree with, but maybe it's all about the point of view? If you see the accomplishment in having your page edits & revisions on live page ASAP, then be my guest. But honestly this is exactly what I see just as a MINOR by-product. Here is the list of MAJOR things which really matter and which all have been accomplished in recent weeks:


 * 1. Dual-cost table layout.


 * 2. Footnotes and referencing system.


 * 3. Collapsible tables.


 * 4. Tables nested into collapsible tables.


 * 5. Multiple tables nesting.


 * 6. Solution how to deal with unconfirmed data.


 * 8. General approaches how to organize & display information (e.g. Quick Facts box).


 * 9. Consistent system on columns sizes adjustment (at least I learned myself to do this in a few seconds instead of labouring with it hours and hours as on the beginning - thanks to that awesome Chrome extension)


 * 10. Consistent system on aligning values.


 * 11. Refining & advancing ideas on which to base consistent conventions which have not been previosuly set-up (however they should be further advanced to include them into Style Guide - otherwise they can end forgotten later on).


 * 12. Learning a great deal from MediaWiki pages research.

... and many many more things ...

Of course, some things from the list eventually not make it into final version, but I wouldn't definitely consider them being waste of time - they can always be stored for later use (e.g. as pages in your user folder) and be invaluable in some other future projects.

Personally, I also learned a lot about how to proceed when developing something new - especially if it should be major improvement to something with already exists (and it took me really some time before I even started to realizing the following 3 paragraphs):


 * 1. First of all, if you have already clear idea about texts & graphics which are missing on original page, let's start with those. Incomes of this first step (new texts & images) can be uploaded into live page continously - as it brings no benefit to wait all the time until everything is finished. Can? Well, merely should ... because it also provides motivating feelings of some accomplishments which were already achieved.


 * 2. In next step move forward to Analysis. The perfect ground for it is transferring a small pattern of game-data (especially those with different structure and/or layout) and start to create proof-of-concepts to design a new layout and structure. Everything should be considered carefully here (e.g. what is purpose of concrete elements) and try to see things in many different angles and in context. In this phase, it is very beneficial if you can get as much opinions and feed-back from community as possible. This really helps a lot to prevent going into dead-ends and your efforts wasted in the future (and not only on current page but on other future projects as well).


 * 3. And finally, when everything is concluded and approved ... move to last final step: to build-up roof & chimney => which means filling-in all remaining game data into the tables. It's a pity you decided to hold on more straighforward approach and rush things from step 2 so much ... in order to have everything completed and live ASAP. Now I can see that skipping (more or less) entirely analytical step 2 caused several drawbacks. And I have to admit that in this one (and only!) point happened that some of your time & efforts were really wasted - e.g. creating specific sorting value for each game-data cell - but without considering first for which is that table sorting good for. I hope that you will think about this as I don't wish you any unnecessary reworks just because of skipped analysis.

To sum it up, I can't speak of any of my time here as wasted. Yes, there were some moments I felt Extensions forum thread is making me tired and lacking any output. But I definitely can't refuse to see it gave and learned me a lot. Furthermore, as far as I browsed through entire Wiki's content, I found the Extension page as the most complex and difficult topic dealt with here on wiki, so let's look on the bright side! It's the greatest challenge you could ever have - to achieve reconstructing such complex and sophisticated data into effective & user-friendly layout and structure. And it has very strong 'blueprint effect' => all that things I learned in recent weeks come very handy when editing other pages ... I already feel to be everything easy as a pie now thanks to the hard Extensions school (difference compared to beginnings is HUGE!).

On the other hand, I find myself cheated and I don't see any reason why to continue now as it is clearly visible that you intend to have the Extensions revision project only for yourself. Even more, all your rude posts, offenses and false accusations don't motivate me to continue on this wiki any further. Perhaps I shouldn't spend here more than a few minutes of a day and attend to some more meaningful matters instead - such as this recently completed TranStation Mobile Access guide . Anyway I wish you only good ... and I hope that some day you eventually discover that what really matters in learning you like so much is having feed-back, discussion and flow of ideas (as even very critical ones are much better compared to have anything).